Curse

william1975 · Jul 02, 2007, 09:11 PM // 21:11

rolling should be left to events where both sides are too evenly matched to win, I enter a game in order to play it not for someone to decide to roll simply because they are too lazy to play, if you want faction so badly then farm it,

While i would like to have a better reward more in line with what we got when we lost previously i don't think the solution is to mass leave, in a group of 12 wth 3 teams who is to decide this is what is wanted?

I don't leave at any point during a game, i don;t like it and wouldn't leave even if someone else decided thats what they were doing

TabascoSauce · Jul 02, 2007, 09:45 PM // 21:45

William, nothing is ever that simple. You see, this /roll idea, well, actually, it is farming. And until a better/more efficient path to get faction comes out, you can expect to see all this quitting, leeching, and rolling behavior go on.

I have a funny story example for you about how this whole debacle is working.

There is this game about star wars with miniatures. You literally move them around a map. Those toys are all over ebay. My nephew wanted to go to a local tourney, and my Brother was too busy, so I took a saturday and went to the local game store with him where it was held.

Well they took pity on me for being old and not really a starwars miniatures collector and all, and I joined too. It was a 100 point game and I got like 8 stormtroopers, 7 grunts and an officer. Everybody had a dozen or two of them because they were common. Hehe, I named my team the Mos Eisley Police Department. This was over a year ago so its a little hazy, but I remember playing and getting 4th place out of 24 even though I had never played the game before or since.

I didn't care - I had fun. I had no ego invested in the game, and my keystone cop "bounding overwatch, maneuver in cover, surround, and melee to death" tactics worked great.

I can safely state that these people took offense at me for walking in and clubbing them to death with stormtroopers.

That is because they had ego on the line, and there was a clear-cut line for winners and losers. If this had not been a tourney, then we all probably would have had a good laugh, but that was not the case.

ANet has set up this game with a clear win/lose paradigm, and exacerbated the situation by remove what pittance of a reward losers get. So, why stick in the game if you are going to lose? For players like you, just out to have a good time, then whatever - you're there to have fun. But not everyone is in that position, as evidenced by bad behavior on the part of the community of leavers and leechers.

If the game was rewarding to play, win or lose, then people would play it. That is the problem that the OP is proposing a solution to. Your suggestion to simply go "farm for it" is exactly what they are doing.

The /roll suggestion at least organizes the chaos. Unfortunately, that chaos is in your particular segment of GW, sounds like.

What we all seem to be agreeing on is - make AB profitable winning or losing. It is better to win, of course, but until it is better to lose and stick it out, there will be quitters. Leechers are another issue altogether, but quitting seems to be a more easily solved issue.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

MSecorsky · Jul 02, 2007, 10:05 PM // 22:05

The problem with this /roll thing is that, unlike farming, you're deliberately screwing up the game for participants that are actually there to play. That's what makes it wrong and a flat out moronic idea.

TabascoSauce · Jul 02, 2007, 10:10 PM // 22:10

So, are you suggesting that ANet up the rewards for mission completion to provide a better alternative and let AB be for people who want to play again? Say, like Battle of the Houses being worth 1,000 per run, doubled to 2,000 once it is turned in?

What are the odds that AB will go back to being....deserted?

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

D8tura · Jul 02, 2007, 10:15 PM // 22:15

i do see a trend (if this hits)

"Roller Group - invite self"

the groups like someone said before have total power - 8 vs 12, skewing the numbers and throwing AB into a tail spin. Groups with the intent to roll can ruin AB until there's nothing to do except join them.

Gaille, I admire you and think you do a terrific job, but I think Anet does not act fast enough to fix these issues. You have some watch dog banning people for "bot-like behaviour", yet i see none regarding "leech-like behaviour". And yes, I think it is a ban-able offense if the person is repeatedly doing it (as leeches tend to do unlike the people who have to go afk for things out of thier control).

It's sad this roller group thing seems like the best alternative as an end to a means...

MSecorsky · Jul 02, 2007, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by D8tura

i do see a trend (if this hits)

"Roller Group - invite self"

the groups like someone said before have total power - 8 vs 12, skewing the numbers and throwing AB into a tail spin. Groups with the intent to roll can ruin AB until there's nothing to do except join them.

.

Of course there is. The remaining eight can mob and tell the opposing team that they are not leaving and will do everything they can to stretch the game out. Take away the quick, easy faction by making them fight for it... even if 12 v 8. All you need is one shrine to keep is going.

Zeek Aran · Jul 02, 2007, 10:30 PM // 22:30

ABing is fine for me. Just did several matches in Saltspray, one leaver about midgame, no leechers on either sides. The issue for ABs doesn't seem too bad.

Tabasco, your post was basically irrelevant and offered little information.

Anyone complaining about grinding:

Let's see... Tyria Grandmaster Cartographer [which I do have] requires that you spend HOURS scraping every area.

Drunkard [without the use of windows] takes you 16.6 hours of sitting, clicking on alcohol for r1, r2 is ten times that. Not to mention... say a single minute of beer is 100g, that's 100,000g for r1, 1 mill for r2. Grind much? Yes. That's because it's a title.

Treasure hunter and wisdom: 10,000 golds IDed and 10,000 chest opened. I'm not even going to explain the grind here.

The point is, TITLES REQUIRE GRIND! Just like faction farming, you grind for it. There is nothing new here except that you want and not need the faction skills. If you want to use faction skills, get the first tier [which was EXTREMELY easy on the weekend event], get your skills, and stop ruining PvP. Nothing left to say after that except deal with it.

D8tura · Jul 02, 2007, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeek Aran

TITLES REQUIRE GRIND! Just like faction farming, you grind for it. There is nothing new here except that you want and not need the faction skills. If you want to use faction skills, get the first tier [which was EXTREMELY easy on the weekend event], get your skills, and stop ruining PvP. Nothing left to say after that except deal with it.

For the people who:

Don't give a **** what title you are or why you flaunt yourself around (giving yourself airs),

and

PVE players who would like to use their PVE skills without grinding around in PVP to enhance them,

you make no point whatsoever. I'd like to see PVP system screwed up with rollers. I'm a PVE player and want a complete separation between both PVP and PVE but have to AB for the most faction. I'd like to see your precious PVP messed up beyond belief so I can say "deal with it" like you say to others who don't want to play like you.

Zeek Aran · Jul 02, 2007, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by D8tura

For the people who:

Don't give a **** what title you are or why you flaunt yourself around (giving yourself airs),

and

PVE players who would like to use their PVE skills without grinding around in PVP to enhance them,

you make no point whatsoever. I'd like to see PVP system screwed up with rollers. I'm a PVE player and want a complete separation between both PVP and PVE but have to AB for the most faction. I'd like to see your precious PVP messed up beyond belief so I can say "deal with it" like you say to others who don't want to play like you.

The only title I said I had was the tryian map, and it was a VERY minor sidenote. All of the skills are just fine at r1. Oh, and guess what, the ONLY PvPing I have EVER done is AB, and that's not often. Also, ANET didn't have to REWARD people who farm faction with skills, but they did.

Bai · Jul 02, 2007, 11:25 PM // 23:25

It's not like PvE-only skills are a necessity to play the game. You can do just fine without them. Also, I think that leavers should be punished in a way similar to some FPS games, where when you leave a room, you get your gold deducted.

CDittric77 · Jul 02, 2007, 11:28 PM // 23:28

^Agreed. And you can make plenty of faction in PvE by getting a blessing and cleaning out the entire jade sea.

D8tura · Jul 02, 2007, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeek Aran

The only title I said I had was the tryian map, and it was a VERY minor sidenote.

hmmm your "[which i do have]" to your title and pointing out you spent hours getting it, contradicts your cartographer being a "VERY minor sidenote". Don't bull*** me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeek Aran

All of the skills are just fine at r1.

a ton of people would disagree with you and would like to have a better way to make them stronger, hence the outrage by the masses at 10,000,000 for this title

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeek Aran

Oh, and guess what, the ONLY PvPing I have EVER done is AB, and that's not often. Also, ANET didn't have to REWARD people who farm faction with skills, but they did.

I stick to my statement before - I'd like to see AB ruined for everyone, because people who care nothing about faction are forced to "farm faction" for these skills. What kind of reward was that?

Zeek Aran · Jul 02, 2007, 11:44 PM // 23:44

I said it took hours, because it takes hours for anyone who gets the cartographer title, which is grinding. If it took two hours, sixteen minutes, and seven seconds to get 100% map, then it wouldn't be grinding and fit into the topic.

Fine. Don't stay at r1. Continuing complaining [while you continue farming] and be like me, stop at r5. 875k compared to ten million? That's nothing to be outraged about and all the skills have decent use.

Kashrlyyk · Jul 03, 2007, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfcp11

-1 * -1 = 1

But don´t forget: i * i = -1

Zeek Aran · Jul 03, 2007, 12:16 AM // 00:16

What do imaginary numbers have to do with right and wrong, Kash? Getting a little off topic.

Nevin · Jul 03, 2007, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeek Aran

No one complained about this BEFORE faction was doubled making it twice as easy to earn. Two hours for fives days and you have 100k. That's easy.

Say someone ONLY has 2 hours day to play GW, so.. If they want this skill they basically need to dedicate 5 days straight to nothing but trying to get it?

Zeek Aran · Jul 03, 2007, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevin

Say someone ONLY has 2 hours day to play GW, so.. If they want this skill they basically need to dedicate 5 days straight to nothing but trying to get it?

Exactly. If you want everything given to you, go get a console game and put in the cheats for all unlocks.

william1975 · Jul 03, 2007, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Farming, to my mind, doesn't involve screwing up other people's enjoyment of the game. Farming is usually done by an individual or a group and doesn't affect other groups, AB is the only PvP area where you rely on two other groups to play in order to function properly, people are annoyed in general with leavers and leechers due to them reducing the performance of their side.

If you go into AB and one team does this /roll thing then the performance takes a massive dive, instead of the odd leaver or leecher you now have 4 leavers, or even worse you may end up with 8.

Getting a blessing in HM now is far quicker than AB, 50 dead foes will get you more points than if you lose, and you dont have to wait to get in. When i want to gain points thats what I do

The one thing i have noticed since this update is that I rarely see leechers anymore, due to the pittance of a reward for losing. to revert back to it then i assume we would see an increase once again in leeching. Leavers are always a problem as some folk just quit when you are losing.

When i want to play AB I dont particularly want to wait 5 to 10 minutes to get in just to be faced with a third of the team rolling and then leaving, I'm sure a lot of people out there love to hang about for that length of time get into a game then fail within seconds only to have to go out and wait another 10 minutes before doing it all again.

Quite simply that is highly tedious to me, as far as i can see it would be as much fun as watching paint dry.

However i do know the Star Wars Minatures game, played it quite often, and i saw many people that hated losing or took offense at being beaten by new players or what they considered silly teams, but thats what its like in all areas of life. however to be similar to this situation then you would have to had suggested to the players that you roll a die with them and highest win instead of actually playing. You said you played so how is it similar? Whether you are playing in ernest or just for fun you still play, this suggestion here is that you dont play but leave it to chance, and thereby not only defeat the purpose of the game, but also adversly affect others enjoyment of the game.

I have played many games, and in all of them I play to win, I don't appreciate people playing against me that can't be bothered, or don't really want to play. Whya re they there, what is the point? I play to my last man, i try every tactic and i never give up, if I lose then i know its because i have been beaten by a better player, I don't mind, the fun is in competeing, and you learn new tactics by being beat.

However, you are mistaken if you believe I am a AB player, my main play here is in PvE, and my main aim in the game is to complete titles, and while I am enthusastic in attaining them I do like to go to PvP and play for pure fun, and yes it does get me titles too, but i have no beliefe that i'm going to max any i'm just not that good or dedicated a player.

Series · Jul 03, 2007, 12:40 AM // 00:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeek Aran

Exactly. If you want everything given to you, go get a console game and put in the cheats for all unlocks.

This isn't an "unlock", it isn't a vanity like 15k armor, it is a skill you use to play the game.

How about if you want to WORK for everything, go get a copy of World of Warcraft. In order to play that game, you have to spend endless hours grinding away. Nothing to do with player skill or anything, NOTHING handed to you, just working for stuff. Others don't find "work" fun. See, older people have jobs, school, etc. and if they want to work, they will do so in real life. Some people thing games are supposed to be for fun, not working hard and every day to accomplish something. If you think games are better when you spend all day grinding away to get more power, then there are games made to suit people with your tastes. Guild Wars is not one of them and when it turns into one, the community finds a way out. This is rolling.

Zeek Aran · Jul 03, 2007, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Series

This isn't an "unlock", it isn't a vanity like 15k armor, it is a skill you use to play the game.

Games are supposed to be for fun, not working hard and every day to accomplish something.

You said 'a skill'. How many skills does a skill bar have? 8. How many skills already exist? A lot. If you don't want to work to get 8 skills, then ignore them. All titles require work. If you can't have fun without titles, then work and don't complain. Oh, and yes it is just like 15k armor. You don't need it to play the game. You don't need it to beat the game. Everything was just FINE before the skills were even added.